The Arbutus Greenway is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create something big, wonderful and enduring for active transportation in Vancouver. Thankfully, citizens have beaten back the effort to turn it into a private park (complete with heritage blackberry bushes, whose berries go so well with crème-de-la-crème and cocktails). Citizens went to open houses in energetic droves to toss in their wishes, hopes and fears.
But what comes next?
Naiobh O’Connor, writing in the Vancouver Courier, asked Lon LaClaire, Vancouver’s Director of Transportation, to discuss the upcoming design effort. Wondering, like everyone, how to squeeze in walkers, rollers of various kinds, bike riders and provisions for an eventual light rail system. Not to mention art, history, planters and whatever else came up from the consultations.
Personally, I’ll be most interested in intersections, since this is where danger lurks. I’d be delighted to see grade-separation in a few places where the Greenway crosses arterials. I’ll be looking for design options in the fall, and preferred options in the spring of 2018.
What the City bought
From the Vancouver Courier: Greenway project staff are now analyzing a mountain of feedback. Close to 4,000 people submitted input — 3,000 completed a city survey, 910 visited two pop-up events and 260 attended open houses. . . .
The corridor ranges in width from 15 to 20 metres, raising anxiety the city is trying to pack too many uses in. It’s a point raised during consultation where one of the main messages LaClaire heard was “people want something pretty simple.”
“I heard some people concerned about what we’re trying to fit in the right-of-way… trying to fit a streetcar, walking and cycling doesn’t leave much space,” he said. “That is going to be a challenge in the design. It will be interesting in the next phase, when we come up with options, how it can fit and get people’s reactions.”Lon LaClaire, Director of Transportation
Deciding the route for the future streetcar is one the first priorities because it will inform the rest of the design. There may be portions where the tracks could veer off the corridor and move back on at a different point. LaClaire has been talking with city engineers about the possibilities. . . .
But detailed design work on the final greenway is a long way off. This fall, design options will be unveiled followed by further consultation. A preferred option, which might be a combination of more than one, will be released in the spring of 2018.
To me, grade separation is like the George Massey Bridge. At great expense, you just move the problem to somewhere else. Grade separation says, “don’t do things to calm traffic”. If cars can zoom by the corridor unimpeded they will carry excessive speeds to surrounding intersections making them less safe.
If we want great urban spaces (where the corridor crosses Broadway and 41st in particular), everything must be done to reduce the impact of MVs.
Grade separation would most likely be underpasses for corridor users which creates severe aesthetic challenges in the limited width available.
I’m always amazed how far you can ride a bike in “suburban” Amsterdam without having to stop and without any grade separation. Grade separation does exist in Holland, but it is a last resort and is still relatively rare.
Though rare, they do use tunnels/underpasses and I see these more as prioritizing active transportation. Here is one in Amsterdam:
https://goo.gl/maps/L3woE6a56Hn
In a new section of Breda, there is an intersection with tunnels AND surface crossings.
Sure… and look at the super wide swath of land they had to work with. Appropriate here.
But look 100m to the left. A perfect example of Dutch cycling priority without grade separation: A cycling roundabout outwards of a MV roundabout with enough space for a car to stop between them. Cyclists need never stop here as they have priority and motorists respect it fully.
While not suitable for most of the Arbutus Corridor, it could certainly be done almost everywhere south of 41st with a reworking of the entire boulevard ROW.
Here is the section of Breda with the tunnels: https://goo.gl/maps/DzFuRPbFJwQ2
The intersection near the right has 4 tunnels AND surface crossings. There is also a tunnel further west in spite of there being a nearby intersection.
Again… lots of width to work with. And decidedly NOT urban – crossing what looks like a highish speed highway through a N.A. style suburban area with large highway landscape buffers. Not really comparable to the Arbutus Corridor.
Not saying that grade separation should be ruled out completely. But I’m not yet convinced there is anywhere on this corridor where it would be the best solution.
I agree with Ron. Grade separations are expensive, frequently ignored and not the right way to support all modes safely in this corridor.
Every time I ride or walk through the underpass to Stanley Park, at the foot of Chilco, I am glad I don’t have to detour up to the next intersection at Denman to get across Georgia. That underpass works.
There will be ramps built under Broadway at Arbutus to access the new subway station. There is also likely to be a bike parkade there. The ramps could be connected to form a pedestrian/cycling underpass for the Arbutus Greenway. Doesn’t have to be expensive, just planned. Those that want to cross at the light at Arbutus would still be able to do so.
The Stanley Park underpass has a much wider space to allow gentle grading and landscaping. It also crosses a road that has much less interruption – more highway than urban street.
If there is grade separation at Broadway, the Arbutus subway station will have to be about 4m deeper making it less attractive to transit riders. This will be a major transfer point for decades. Creating a traffic calmed urban environment will make the transfer more pleasant rather than less.
The Stanley Park Causeway has a major light at Denman, just down the street. That is a pretty significant interruption.
If the subway is tunneled, as opposed to cut and cover, I would presume that the minimum depth will be determined by that. We (or at least I) don’t know where the station at Arbutus will be yet, it could be east of Arbutus, west of Arbutus, or right under it. Maybe all of the above. My suggestion is to look for ways to configure it so that there is access to it from near the Greenway, for people walking and people on bikes. That access will have to be a ramp for accessibility issues. The ramps will likely enter from both north and south. Make those ramps wide enough for separation. Problem solved.
The other two intersections I would push tunnels for are at 41st, and SW Marine. There may be more, but those three are the ones that I think are most critical.
And we can certainly still traffic calm the urban environment at street level. Just suggesting not doing it with people, use smart physical design instead.
Stanley Park Causeway interruptions are 2 blocks away on one side but 5 kms away on the other. It is a highway unfit for human crossing. It happens to become just an unfriendly car-centric urban roadway a couple of blocks away. The Denman “interruption” is barely that because heavy traffic streams through the intersection on both green and red signals. There is no break in traffic. You are not even permitted to cross on the west side of the intersection.
Find me a great urban environment with grade separation for humans. Anywhere?
Both Broadway and 41st have the potential to be great urban spaces where the corridor crosses. I believe you greatly diminish the possibility if you put humans in tunnels.
“Grade separation says, “don’t do things to calm traffic”.”
Another way of looking at it is that not doing grade separation says that people walking and riding bikes fulfill a secondary function as traffic pylons.
It is possible to calm traffic and also have grade separation where appropriate.
I disagree. It is not the users who are pylons. It is street design that makes them feel like they are not. It is on roadways that are not traffic-calmed that humans feel like pylons.
I feel that the design of the station will not have to be changed. The depth of the tracks will be a function of the depth of the overburden and the bed rock cover needed to drill the subway tunnels. The Broadway subway will not be open cut.
Look the depth of the stations at Yaletown, Vancouver Centre and West Hastings. The proposed Arbutus Greenway underpass will run adjacent to the station for it is planned to be constructed in the present Broadway right-a-way.
The entrance to the station from the Arbutus Greenway could be wide, well lite with glass entrance and exit doors.
We have made a rough calculation and the depth of the Arbutus Greenway could be 12 to 15 feet and the maximum grades would be 3.5 to 4%. The guiding constraints are the slopes must be contained between the 8th Ave. and 10th Ave. right-a-ways.
The tunnels will be bored (we hope), but the station will be cut and cover. It is advantageous to bring the station closer to grade for at least three reasons: Construction cost, access and gravity assist. You can save a lot of energy by sloping the guideway up to stations and down out of them.
The constraints on ramping the grade separation are not just the grade of the path but retaining the side-cuts.
A cut &cover skytrain tunnel along 8th or 10th would probably save enough $ to end at Mcdonald instead of Arbutus
I lived on 10th in a century old brick apartment building for 6 years. 2,000 residents over that 4 km stretch will lay in front of the excavators over and over and before they will allow trench warfare at their front doors. As one experienced engineer said about the winning bid for the Canada Line, it was engineering from the Dark Ages.
Piss off 2,000 people to save a few hundred million ? It comes down to the the difference between bids.