Jordan Bateman was at it again in today’s Sun – going after the green.
Then there is the City of Vancouver’s preposterous push for a 12 kilometre, underground SkyTrain line to UBC. It is by far the most expensive transit option they could have dreamed up – coming in at $3 billion, for which they expect federal, provincial and TransLink taxpayers to pick up the tab.
It’s all part of Vancouver’s plan to become “the world’s greenest city.” Taxpayers already shelling out for TransLink property taxes, gas taxes, parking taxes, tolls, fares and hydro taxes, should be the ones turning green – with nausea.
SkyTrain is already an expensive transit technology, and putting it underground makes it even pricier.
I await his charge of government waste about this:
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Why did do we need a bridge so excessively wide that is unlikely to ever meet its design capacity – just like the Granville Bridge?
And let’s have no nonsense, please, that because it’s tolled, it isn’t like being paid for with tax dollars. It is, as Jordan would say, all coming out of the same pocket. The money spent on unneeded road capacity is money that isn’t being spent to provide other services – like, say, a transit stop in Surrey for the express bus speeding past on its way over the Port Mann Bridge.
There’s no doubt that if we built a Broadway rapid-transit line that it would be used – probably filled to capacity on its first days of operation. Yet in the face of declining traffic volumes, it’s still full-speed ahead on the Massey Tunnel replacement. No word from Jordan on that. Nor did he, when criticizing TransLink, target the Pattullo Bridge, where the board, without much thought or consultation, gave the go-ahead on a six-lane replacement – just downstream from the widest bridge in the world! Probably another billion there.
The Canadian Taxpayers Federation liberally (heh!) borrows from the American Right in its strategy -exempting highways (and prisons and the military) as targets (try a search on their site) – and goes after not the grey but the green. One need only compare:
If Shakespeare were alive today, and no doubt opposed to government waste, he might say kill the highway lobbyists — or at least their wasteful projects. The Sierra Club came out with its list of 50 best and worst transportation projects based on environmental impact.
The worst projects are astoundingly costly — frequently running into the billions of dollars. The widening of I-5 in San Diego County is priced at $4.5 billion. That’s more than the nationwide TIGER competitive grant program over its entire life, including the $1.5 billion first-year stimulus allocation. Then there’s the $2 billion South Mountain Freeway in Phoenix. And the Trinity River Parkway in Dallas, estimated to cost $1.4 billion to $1.8 billion.
– From Better! Cities & Towns:
And so on.
My conclusion: Do not separate transit and highways. Include them in the same plans, in the same budgets – so that one cannot proceed without the other in the high-growth, expanding parts of the region. And so that excessive capacity – and excessive criticism – are both scrutinized before we blow more billions.
There is a huge difference between tolls and taxes. To use the same pocket argument is dishonest. If you choose not to drive and either carpool or take transit you are paying less. User pay gives modest power to the individual, taxes do not. With regard to the Broadway nonsense its really about the city pushing to make UBC the world’s largest gated community with tunnelled subway access to downtown.
@David, you do realize that UBC is planning all of this development quite independent of the City of Vancouver. In fact, UBC has nothing to do with the City of Vancouver, all they share is a school board.
I do understand that; I am not opposed to either UBC development or infrastructue investment . I think there is merit to any development being even more dense than it is and with greater focus on student housing. I hope that this would be a subject on the table before billions are invested for infrastructure.
Vancouver is more interested in serving the Broadway corridor, the densest job area outside of downtown in the region, which is woefully underserved by transit and because of this also has an unusually low transit ridership for such a major job node. The five B-line stations on Central Broadway are as dense with jobs and residences as Metrotown is. It’s a no-brainer that skytrain is needed there.
And last I checked, transit users pay a toll, too.
Us no brainers were uaware of transit users paying a toll as well. If they do I would hope that it is substantially less the car drivers. In general all users should pay tolls but at much different levels, to use a ludicrous example to make a point transit users 5 cents, bike users 10 cents and car users whatever is currently charged.
I have been waiting to hear or read someone comment on the “widest bridge in the world” claim that Premier Clark has been making lately, as if it is a great thing. Is it?
Should the premier be boasting about the province being the home of the widest bridge in the world, like being home to the biggest ball of twine? How about the tallest smokestack?
The biggest sewage treatment tank, the biggest traffic jam?
speaking of “greenest city” and a $3 billion subway to UBC, I also wonder how much GHGs would be produced to make all the concrete necessary to construct the UBC line.
And then there is the fact that Mr. Batemen actively worked with/was the spokesperson for a ‘grassroots’ group called ‘Get Moving BC’ that helped make the new Port Mann bridge happen.
Imagine that.
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Until and unless the tolls cover the financing costs of the Port Mann, the bridge will be subsided by tax dollars. With driving declining and the government overestimating people’s willingness to pay tolls, the Bridge may require ongoing taxpayer subsidies.
Regarding the Broadway Line, the ridership and thus ridership revenue will be quite high while the operating costs will be much lower than with all the buses required today. Thus, some portion of the capital costs will likely be paid for by revenue.
@Adam
Even with the GHG emission from the construction, the subway provides the highest emissions reductions over a 30 year period of all the options due to attracting far more drivers out of their cars.
What can we expect from an organization that also attacks the fundamental value of a Carbon Tax and really plays to populist politics?
@Adam
Here is the comparison of the Broadway options. SkyTrain (RRT), scores best in net GHG emissions reductions, new transit trips and pretty good in the cost per new trip.
https://www.translinklistens.ca/MediaServer/270/documents/RRT_v4.pdf
Gord – seems like the Sun has the wrong guy writing on such complex and important issues.
I agree. PT and roads funding needs to come out of the same pool.PT should be competing against motorways for funding, not against health, education or welfare.
It’s supposed to be that way – Translink IS responsible for roads and bridges, which is why they own the Golden Ears bridge. When Translink was set up the idea of a single agency responsible for both was hailed as a big win for sensible transportation planning.
But for some reason, rather than giving Translink the money and letting it decide how best to spend it the provincial government parachutes money directly into massive road infrastructure projects like the Port Mann / Patullo bridges and the Massey Tunnel…
Double standards…transportation is all under one same category whether it be by road infrastructure or public transit. We also often talk about whether a certain transit service (particularly rapid transit lines) breaks even on their operational costs or “recuperates their construction costs,” yet this is seldom required of for road infrastructure.
I also wouldn’t bundle up taxes with user fees/tolls under the same category. They’re just not the same. User fees/tolls are costs for choices/actions, in comparison taxes are a blanket requirement for the whole population in a certain jurisdiction.
What about consumption taxes? Are these user fees or taxes?
Would be better to increase buses. If large earthquake we need emergency services above ground rescuing,not down in a sky train tunnel trying to find victims. It will stretch & abuse their services. Also cheaper to increase bus service.
@Dale
That is a real stretch. There are subway tunnels built in earthquake prone cities all over the world. I don’t think there was any problems in Tokyo during the big quake last year.
In fact, some say a subway tunnel is the best place to be during an earthquake.
http://blogdowntown.com/2012/08/6959-metro-tunnels-are-one-of-the-safest-places
Thanks for helping to bright to light another advantage of the Broadway subway.
Thank you @ Richard & @ yvrlutyens. Thank you for the info. I read article in this weeks Georgia Strait regarding earthquakes & submerged holes, something like that. Often think about Emerg.workers having to get people out of the tunnels.
Seconding Richard here. Tunnels tend to be safe in earthquakes because the damaging waves travel along the surface. The waves that travel deeper have low displacement, meaning the rock doesn’t move that much. And tunnels of course are braced on all sides. The tunnels that I favour, cut-and-cover, aren’t as protected as bored tunnels as they aren’t as deep, but they still experience less displacement are are still braced on at least three sides.
The shortest amount of time, the newest “Widest” bridge in the World was opened, till it was shut down…New record ..Christy..
Actually Gordon, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation was talking about Port Mann cost overruns before it was cool – check out this link on our web site from 2009:
http://taxpayer.com/british-columbia/port-mann-bridge-convention-centre-all-over-again
If we never critique military spending, then what about this 2011 commentary I wrote on runaway spending at the Department of National Defence?
http://taxpayer.com/federal/cutting-canada%E2%80%99s-bloated-defence-hq-will-be-battle-royal
I did what you said you did, searched on our site.
Had you done some research on Jordan, you would have come across this 2008 presentation he did on light rail and streetcars:
http://www.slideshare.net/jgabateman/jordan-batemans-presentation-to-valtac-april-30-2008-langley-light-rail-and-streetcars
Jordan’s been advocating for light rail for a decade or so – kind of unusual for a militaristic American right winger – I guess that’s your shorthand for people who live in Langley.
Jordan’s research and reporting on Translink has improved service for people who ride transit in Metro Vancouver.
Your over-the-top personal attacks do nothing to advance the transit debate.