If it’s like this at sea level, then what’s it like at higher ground?
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At ~100m elevation, and like last time:
it was basically no bus on 41st, no bus on 49th, …
…but the city has made sure the 45th bikeway avenue was a clear sail…
It happens like it when ideology trump reality.
Are you serious? Is the bike lane cleared today (Friday 3rd Feb)?
On the False Creek Seawall, the walking path was plowed first, mid morning. Then the bike path was plowed, then the (mini) plow went back and did the walking side again.
Walkers and cyclists appreciated it.
very serious Eric, snow plowed and salted… it was aready the case in the previous snow falls event.
Tonight (~6:30pm) I rode a cab on Granville street toward downtown : saw 7 trolley stranded on this major street which has apparently not seen a single snow plow or salt truck for the whole day…then hundreds of people lining at each and every bus stop…
the cab radio was mentioning many more hundreds of people waiting for cab at the airport…
What a relieve to see that the leisure bikeway along the seawall was effectively cleared and has apparently be seen by maybe 4 cyclists by 7pm (it is probably more than the count on 45th)…but how many million of $ in lost productivity the city priorities has costed us today?
The crews have their marching orders.
Gregor has repeatedly won. It’s working for them.
As long as there are 30 or 60 communications staff to feed the media nice stories then that’s what the public will believe. Only headlines are read. Only one or two lines are broadcast.
@Voony – just so we are clear… you think the machine that clears areas like separated bike lanes and the Seawall should have been redirected to major arterials?
Really sad to the knee jerk thumbs down from the bike brigade. Global was reporting from Stadium Station last night about Skytrain issues and pointed out city crews had cleared the viaduct bikeway but they had only seen four bikes in 45 minutes use it. In the meantime thousands were stranded when busses couldn’t make it up inadequately cleared major roads. Surely even the most ardent cyclist can admit the priorities for cleaning should be to benefit the most people?!
Presumably the comment would relate to manpower – not necessarily equipment.
But the limiting factor could be the number of snowplows.
If the limiting factor is the number of workers rotating shifts on those snowplows, then they could be redirected from the bike lane clearing.
If the problem is the number of snowplows – then it’s an issue for the capital budget for next year – which the City may choose to ignore.
Voony, I find it hard to believe that 45th was cleared. Last time it was a skating rink for 2 weeks. However, it was probably salted prior to snowfall.
Why not rejoice that city is allocating a tiny portion of their resources toward those walking and cycling? After all, among Vancouver resident commuters, way more people cycle and walk to work than take transit (34% vs 24%). Costs for walking and cycling in terms of infrastructure and maintenance are super low while benefits are enormous. What’s not to like?
It’s important that people who live in the suburbs don’t get their information about Vancouver from the corporate media.
here is 45th avenue at Kerr
https://voony.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/45thatkerr.jpg
the bike in the picture is probably the only one the road will see today, since the cyclists to reach on bikeway need to be comfortable to ride in the snow/slush of neighborood streets or on slushy arterial such as Rupert…So in otherword it doesn’t do too much for the cyclists ok to ride in the today condition.
Here is the truck cleaning this bikeway:
https://voony.wordpress.com/wp-admin/upload.php?item=47270
This truck is litteraly diverted from 41st (and 49th) to clear the bikeway. It is not all:Eeach time the truck clear one lane on 41st, it clear one lane on 45th… so that in practice, 45th (1.5 traffic lane) receives 3 time more attention than 41st (4 traffic lane).
41st is not only one of the busiest transit corridor in the city, it is also a designated Disaster Response Route…
Saying that the city answer to snow events is underwhelming is an understatement
Link doesn’t work for me. That’s not a plowed bike way. That’s a plowed street with a smidgen of sharrow cleared simply because the sharrow symbol is on the road where the plot drove.
Good try. This section of 45th is pretty much an arterial. The NPA led a concerted neighbourhood effort to remove any restriction on car traffic. City has given up on this as a bike route with the exception of keeping the 30k/h signs which everyone ignores. How about any section west of Rupert?
Anyway, what is wrong with giving a small nod to people who commute by bike?
That truck and some of those staff driving the mini bike lane clearing machines could have been useful last night on Knight Street. It was blocked at 33rd to 41st. for hours. Not even buses could get through.
Voony – That section of 45th is part of a bus route as well. Are you saying that just because it is also a bike route that the city should not plow it?
By the way I checked out 45th east of Cambie and it has definitely not been plowed. Ontario has been plowed but only some time today.
I am happy that Ontario has been cleared because I am now somewhat mobile. I did have to use 41st Ave today because 45th was not cleared.
“Saying that the city answer to snow events is underwhelming is an understatement”
I think there is always room for improvement. My biggest concern with the last snowfall, however, wasn’t with the City. It was with private property owners who didn’t seem to understand their own obligations, then left sidewalks until they were packed and icy, and couldn’t clear them.
There seems to be an expectation that the City should clear side streets. It would be ridiculously expensive to do so IMO, and we would have tax increases to pay for it. We lived years in Grande Prairie and Edmonton, and residential streets were cleared once or twice in five months of winter, every year. Residents dealt with it.
Yup. Everyone should get a big honking raised pick-up truck. Just like those earth moving guys in Grande Prairie.
Two wheel drive cars worked fine. Winter tires were a good idea. Raised pick up trucks are for the suburbs in Metro.
I understand some are tempted by a “alternative fact”, however:
1/ 45th It is an offically designed bikeway by the city, and that can be the only reason why the snow plow truck treats this street as a first priority.
2/I have mentioned the section where I took the picture (Kerr): there is no bus route here (bus 26 route use 45th but further east)
3/ West of Rupert still looks like it:
https://voony.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/45thatearles.jpg
Vanness is another bikeway, parralleling here the Translink BC parkway: so what you get is this:
https://voony.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/vannessatmchardy1.jpg
All this done while ~30,000 people was getting wet feet waiting for the bus 41 stuck somewhere along his way…
PS: 49th avenue is a better choice than 41st for cycling, and East of Cambie, 49th is a bikeway and it has been plowed friday (no issue here since it is also a major bus route, except it has not been cleared frequently enough to keep the bus running properly…the plow truck still make a useless detour on 54th, when the bus doesn’t do anymore… )
Voony – Here is the cities snow clearing policy:
http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/snow-removal-from-city-streets.aspx
It states that only the 15 most popular bike routes are on the list. I am very sure that 45th Ave is not on the list because the section between Cambie and Main has not been plowed. I suspect that most of this bike route is not plowed and the only reason that the section near Kerr is plowed is that it serves as a very busy collector route for cars and a portion of it is part of a bus route. That 45th is a designated bike route has nothing to do with it being plowed.
Are you agreeable to having the city treat some bike routes as priority for snow clearing? Note that City of Vancouver is not alone. Boulder has an even stronger policy in that bike routes get too priority. I am sure that many European cities are the same. I have recently seen an image of a Calgary bike lane which was cleared before the rest of the street.
Voony, your negative feelings for bicycles and bicycling infrastructure seem to be affecting your outlook, and are definitely affecting your conclusions.
Yes, 45th is a bikeway. It is simply a shared road for much of its length, however.
No, 45th is not plowed just because it is a bikeway. If that was true, it would be plowed for its length, not just east from Victoria. That is plow route 6, and route 7, on the City map. Take a look on line on VanMap. You can see each plow route.
If the bus is stuck, you should check out why. It may be the road conditions, or it may be a mechanical issue, or an electrical issue,, or it could be another vehicle entirely (one without appropriate winter tires) that is blocking the way. That is what was happening on Robson.
Your comparison with frequency of plowing on 41st is faulty. Look at the plow routes. There are two plow routes on 41st, so it gets twice the frequency, then multiplied by whatever equipment factors are being used (a reported 40 trucks spread over 14 identified routes).
You can’t just plow each street in a nice linear manner. Plows need to turn, and circulate. A look at the maps would show this. What you call useless detours can be explained as simply as turning to run back the other direction.
Whether you think bikeways should be cleared or not, the simple matter is that if they are not, the bikes will be in the street. Then, all vehicles will be going at the same speed as the bike in front of them, as the plowing usually isn’t wide enough for side by side (see your photo). It isn’t always about how many bikes are in the bike lane, but rather how many aren’t on the road with motor vehicles.
1/Not cheering at seeing a bikeway cleared when the whole transit network is brought to its knee due to the city lack of snow clearing is here called “negative feelings for bicycles and bicycling infrastructure…” …
2/ snow or not, cyclists (when small in number, typical case on snow day) doesn’t slow down traffic in any measurable ways.
3/ A vehicle blocks the road because it hasn’t winter tires. Be it the bus or another vehicle is beside the point: the point is that the city didn’t maintain its transit route in a condition good enough to allow decent transit service.
Same has happened with the jack-knifed truck on Knight street. (sidenote, that shows that bus equipped with snow tired could not prevent decent snow clearing). However most of the disruption ws due to bus unable to cop with the snow left on the Vancouver street.
4/ 40 snow trucks: Wow!, Paris has only ~30, Geneva in the Swiss Alps only ~10 BTW, bus there have no winter tire neither …): Where they were friday afternoon?
You can have as many truck as you want: if you dispatch them on the wrong routes, it is just wasting $tax. The city claims it has 14 high priority route for snow clearing: The route 6 Jeff mentions looks like it:
https://voony.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/snowplowroute6.jpg
Unlike what the city claims on its website, barely half of it is a major arterial/truck route/major transit route (typically FTN network)
if we add the bus 26 and 29 (I think those bus route should be second priority thought), still more than a third of the plow truck route cover streets which are neither truck route/major arterial or bus route, and the route doesn’t even cover the bus loop at Knight#Marine…not sure who is clearing that, Translink bring its own truck?)
That is awfully inefficient, and essentially shows a lack of priotization of what should be cleared first
(In Geneva it is simple, it is the bus route plain and simple, and the emergency routes are the bus routes)
As mentioned before, if the truck was not wandering on the 45th or Nanaimo bikeway. we could have possibly avoided that (picture of a previous snow event but same logic applies):
https://voony.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/bus41stuckatknight.jpg
the bus 20 could even have possibly reach Harrsion loop : it was not able friday,…but also saturday…
Inescapable conlcusion: The city has simply its priority wrong (*).
If bike advocacy consist at applauding at every bike lanes clearing disregarding the larger picture. Yeah I am not doing that: I am not a bike lobbyist, I am a sustainable transportation advocate.
(*) To add insult to injury, the cab I have used last friday was heading back empty to Richmond in despite of seeing thousand people on the way needing it due to the lack of working transit: the city bylaw prevented him to pick up anyone…
The city failed at so many levels…
You just posted a map that shows the 45th Ave bikeway is not a priority snow clearing route, apart from the plow turnaround loop at the eastern end of Route 6. All of the rest of 45th is out of luck. See the other maps to confirm that. Sort of doesn’t support your premise, throughout this thread, that the City is clearing bikeways at the expense of transit routes, doesn’t it?
Well done Voony. On the VanMap we see that Knight is not an official Vancouver bikeway. That’s why it was impassable and not plowed. Have to remember to use Windsor and Inverness.
Voony – you may be right about snow clearing being inefficient. But you are dead wrong in blaming the city for clearing 45th due to it being a bike route.
Voony – On your own map, we can clearly see that the quieter portion of 45th is not plowed. Also, other bike routes on your map are not plowed:
– Dumfries
– 59th
– Kent
I haven’t double checked, but you will probably find that nearby routes like 37th, Inverness, Windsor and Prince Edward are also not cleared
Please stop blaming bike routes for your issues re snow clearing. You could blame the city for clearing collector routes, but then there would be a huge outcry from the car lobby.
the correct link for the snow plow/salting truck:
https://voony.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/plowing45thbikeway.jpg
BTW, the people parroting the city hall spining on how important is walking to the city, fell on deaf ears here:
https://voony.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/20170114_machardyvanness.jpg
That is a walking path giving access to the Joyce skytrain station (MacHardy and Vanness): the picture has been taken January 14th…a full 2 weeks after the January 1st snowfall.
If you wonder about who is the lining property owner: it is CoV
Also referred to as “green” or “natural” or “sustainable” as opposed to the real thing, namely doing nothing !!
Except for those driving on arterials!
Are you sure about jurisdiction? TransLink is the owner of much of the BC Parkway. Also, Park Board may have some responsibility and they are very distinct from CoV.
All AWOL as unionized workers prefer to not work on weekends. Mondays 9-5, banker’s hours @ triple the market wages. Where’s a Rob Ford like figure to kick some a… here ?? Why not hire some unemployed folks from DTES, prison workers or some students or refugees trying to make an extra $12-15/h ?
Why do we not fine homeowners or stratas that do not clear their sidewalk by say, 9am after a night of snow fall ?
Because the bylaw gives them to 10 am. And apart from that, the focus is on education, not penalization, according to the City.
Many of the whiners probably don’t even live in Vancouver but expect residents to foot the bill for:
– exemplary snow clearing
– Taking care of a proportionately higher number of homeless and addicted people
– Subsidize education throughout the province while we get the worst deal of all
– Pay much higher TransLink, Metro Vancouver and assesment fees related to property taxes
I could go on and on. I would hope that we at least get a thank you for all this largess instead of constant whining and complaining. Or maybe they could encourage their municipalities to collect extra taxes to help us out.
below is a view from the opposite direction (taken today):
https://voony.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/vannessmchardyfootpath.jpg
The uncleared pedestrian path is owned and managed by the City up to the guideway right of way managed by Translink (and owned by the Province): may you spot the property limit?
nearby parks managed by the VPB got their sidewalk cleared friday
“That is a walking path giving access to the Joyce skytrain station (MacHardy and Vanness)”
Gravel path IIRC. One of their drawbacks is difficulty clearing snow (compared to concrete or asphalt). Fortunately there’s an equally (or more so) direct route to the Skytrain station from McHardy via Wellington for a block to McGeer. Seems pretty popular based on the amount of people using it when I walk past twice a day.
Gravel path? is it another alternative fact from you again?
Googl map seems to disagree with you.
That’s why there’s an IIRC in my remark. Please don’t call me a liar, or worse yet, insinuate that I have lied in the past. Not true and unnecessary for a productive dialogue. Regardless, your position is that in a snow event we should have city staff hand-clearing little-used pathways?
the snow the wonderful snow
free falling on the whiners
the righteously indignant and
the happy snow sliders alike.
Snowmen builders of dreams
soon melting draining make way
the slush trudgers pedal pushers
will soon have their day.
All this “discussion” shows how important it is to collect data. People speculating on the existence of some sort of bike conspiracy who blame any delay in snow clearing or traffic delay or all sorts of things to be caused by it.
So the city needs to have more snow plows and keep track of the timing of which route was cleared when and have this data available to all. Why not GPS units on the snow plows live broadcasting their positions like the buses have?
It brings up an underlying issue of some people who feel that the inclusion of cycling infrastructure and maintenance should not happen at all. This is the main problem really. I don’t know what to do about it.
well befuddle me more snow today
the ground it disappears in fluffy white stuff
good ridden all that dirt and grit under there.
put the fat nobbies on the summer bike rims
gone gone for a pedal spin, spin, spin
in the fluffy white stuff.