Michael Mortensen and others think this latest post from Stephen Rees must be posted on posted on Price Tags:
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Do go read it. Lots of good documentation. But I’m going to give the punch line away.
It seems to me that we are repeating the same pattern we saw with the Gateway. The arguments to justify the expansion of the freeways – and the building of the South Fraser Perimeter Road – were always about trucks. But the real agenda is to encourage the typical pattern of suburban sprawl that the RGS was supposed to deter.
Here is an interesting exchange between myself and Massey tunnel project:
Hi
Our apologies. We should have included the information that although the new bridge will be built to accommodate future rapid transit, Highway 99 is not the regional priority for rapid transit for TransLink at this time – King George, 104, Fraser Highway and Broadway are the priorities based on the higher transit volumes in these areas. A Canada Line extension would be under the jurisdiction of TransLink. So to respond to your comment about options analysis, no we did not do that.
Yours truly,
George Massey Tunnel Replacement Project
Hello
I do not believe that an HOV lane or bus lanes is the same as extending Cad line. It would have been preferable if this project did some sort of options analysis to compare the cost of extending the Cad line verses expanding the highway system.
This options analysis should include costs of both schemes, funding sources, impact on environment, externalities, ROI and journey times.
Thank you
Hello:
Thank you for your email and your interest in the George Massey Tunnel Replacement Project.
With respect to tolling, although the Province intends to fund the Project in part through user tolls, the Province is also seeking a contribution from the federal government. The Project Definition Report consultation was to also seek feedback on tolling. Following completion of this phase of consultation and confirmation of any federal funding, the Ministry will finalize the Project scope, cost estimate and funding sources. We do anticipate that it will be similar to that of the Port Mann Bridge which is currently $3.15 for a car.
With respect to transit, part of the Project scope includes:
– Improve transit and HOV infrastructure with a dedicated transit ramp at Bridgeport Road to connect with Canada Line, transit stops within the Steveston and Highway 17A interchanges, and 50 lane-kilometres of dedicated transit/HOV lanes, including on the new bridge. The new bridge will also be built to allow for potential future rapid transit.
– Provide a multi-use pathway on the new bridge for cyclists and pedestrians, and connections to the existing trail and cycling network in Delta and Richmond which allows for another mode of transportation, not currently available.
You may not be aware but we do have a Project Office located at 2030 – 11662 Steveston Highway in Richmond (Ironwood Plaza) that is open to the public where materials are available for viewing and our team would be pleased to assist you further if you wish to drop by. Thank you again for taking the time to write. We do appreciate your feedback.
Yours truly,
George Massey Tunnel Replacement Project Team
Hello
I have two points:
1) I don’t believe the public can make an informed decision if we do not know the tolls of the bridge and if public subsidies are needed. Without knowing how much tolls are going to be used and the amount of public subsidies how can the public make an informed decision? Please provide this information.
2)It would be better to extend the Cad line out to delta rather than a bridge for cars. 3.5 Billion can buy a lot of subways or trains.
Thank you
Regarding your point #2 N, I would also like to know what value for money provincial taxpayers are getting with projects like the Massey, Port Mann, SFPR and the Metro section of the Trans Canada.
Tolls are meant to recover the capital construction costs, but it’s unclear if that includes the billion or so in amortized debt servicing costs over the life of the lending term. In fact, I suspect the latter is shunted over to the operating costs side of the ledger and the principle buried below a growing mountain of provincial debt, with interest payments made from the annual tax draw.
As repeated several times in several posts, half the operating costs of transit in the Metro by comparison are recovered through the permanent transit toll collecting devices know as fare boxes. A two-zone transit fare is higher than a two-way toll for a car on the bridge, yet cars impose a far higher per capita operating cost on infrastructure than humans on transit vehicles.
The feds should be made aware of some of these facts before they contribute a nickel to Massey. After all, they just signed up for some serious emissions reductions to do our share in keeping a warming planet below 1.5 degrees more heat.
“Fastest growing” is relative. South of Fraser communities are starting from a much lower base population. The cities on the Burrard Peninsula alone are triple the base population density of all SoF cities combined.
A current faster rate of growth elsewhere does nothing to address the demands of areas that have already grown.
People on the Burrard peninsula tend to be a bit ignorant of the masses living south of the Fraser, and bike lanes and transit are not going to cut it there. There are established communities that are a fundamental part of this region, and like it or not are more auto dependent – at least to access suburban transit hubs to get them into Vancouver (if that’s where they’re going). More often than not, their lives take them across other suburban communities. And, not everyone can live in a tiny apartment on the Burrard peninsula. Like free range chickens, some people need a little patch of ground to scratch, which is also more affordable than that in-town apartment. This region needs efficient goods movement – not the gridlock that Vision Vancouver is forcing upon us.
People seriously think that only more public transit is the answer here in Canada’s fastest growing region south of Fraser ? In a fast growing region with soon 4M people and already 30+ ports, all growing, as Canada’s ONLY major export region to the Asia-Pacific region we want to keep 60+ year infrastructure ? This bridge (or tunnel) expansion is such a no-brainer. In fact, the question should be asked: why not sooner ? it even has a bike lane for the ten daily bikes (and maybe 100 on a sunny weekend day). Such a nice touch.
The individual car is here to stay. And yes, it may be hybrid, electric or even self-driven one day in large volumes. No or few carbon emissions ! The new bridge: so green ! Will they toll diesel buses more ?
Seen this?
“A recent survey of Richmond Chamber members shows 87 percent of the business community are in support of the provincial government’s proposed George Massey Tunnel Replacement Project.”
“…“We believe that this substantial infrastructure investment will benefit the business community and residents by making it easier and safer for customers, employees, and goods and services to move in and out of Richmond. The net gain of agricultural land outlined in the report, the capacity for eventual addition of Light Rail Transit over the bridge, 9,000 construction jobs and the access for cycling and walking over the South Arm of the Fraser River, all contribute to our support of the planned bridge.”
A win, win, win…Ease of commuting guarantees preservation of the ALR too.
I am sure if they extended the Cad line out to delta they would also support that in equal percentages. The question is what is the better option.
I’d be careful with using majority public opinion as The Law. The majority of Canadians still support capital punishment, but that has never translated into the majority voting for a government that would re-enact it, or a mass petition.
It isn’t a majority of public opinion that Eric is referencing, it is a majority of the Richmond Chamber of Commerce. Richmond municipal councillors, who are elected, appear to have a different idea. They asked the Federal government to step in.
Thanks Jeff but I can explain the nuances regarding what I’m referencing.
Both the public and the business community overwhelmingly support the new bridge across the river where the old tunnel now is.
Insights West (the highly respected polling company) reported general polling results in February of this year. These results were extensively reported across all media. Even the Ottawa Citizen ran the story.
“The poll also found 51 per cent support the plan to replace the Massey Tunnel with a new 10-lane toll bridge, compared to 32 per cent opposed.”
51 percent supporting, with 83 percent reporting. That is 5/8ths in support.
This is 62% of voters in support.
For reference, that is around 35% opposed.
Even the opposition NDP realize the uphill battle they would have if they try and oppose this project. They understand the waste of resources and energy on an issue and a project that is only going to provide their supporters with lots of good work and which those people massively support. The odds are lousy expending resources against a popular project when the public sentiment is clear.