The first question to ask about McArthur Glen Vancouver – the designer outlet mall on YVR lands (map here) – is this:
Why is it a half-kilometer from the Templeton Canada Line station?
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A case could be made that the employee parking had a higher priority for adjacency to the station than a shopping mall – but then why put the mall parking lot to the west of the destination? If switched to the east, it would have cut the walking distance roughly in half – about the length that most people consider an acceptable walk.
And even if there was a reason, why does the pedestrian connection beyond Templeton station look like this?
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Jersey barriers: building blocks of Motordom, evidence of minimal budgets for non-vehicle rights-of-way. Except for paint:
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And nothing quite says ‘welcome’ like this. (Notice where the pedestrian is going.)
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The designated sidewalk connecting to the mall has been given some thought and expense:
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Except, of course, that no one is using it. They’re taking the direct route through the parking lot:
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For those parking in the lot, there is a beautifully landscaped walkway:
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Except here’s where it bluntly ends – on the edge of the McArthur Glen site:
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From here to Templeton, it’s clear who has the priority on the land that is presumably YVR’s responsibility.
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Here’s YVR’s commitment:
Sustainability at YVR is more than just meeting environmental standards. For us, sustainability means operating our airport in a way that improves the quality of life of our employees and passengers while integrating and co-existing with our natural environment.
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So there it is: sustainability is associated with the natural, not the built environment. And nothing quite reveals the disconnect than where a swale cuts through the asphalt to deal with run-off …
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But there’s no place for people on foot. Other than paint.
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It’s 2015, it’s Vancouver. And this is the best we can do?
Almost all parking lots are just awful for pedestrians. It is almost like they think that people get a ride from their parking spot into the mall, as nobody would dare walk in the dangerous conditions they usually create, forgetting that every driver needs to actually get out of their car and walk to the mall.
I think this is the Airport Authority thumbing its nose at the regional growth plan. I wrote the first news story about early plans for this mall a number of years ago when I was reporting for the Vancouver Sun. Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie was very upset at the time that the airport was pushing this development without reference to the regional strategy or to Richmond, and without making any real effort to tie it into any transportation modes other than automobiles.
Where is Brodie now?
It appears from a Province story in January 2014 that the mall site was moved closer to the SkyTrain station. I don’t know if that was enough to change the mayor’s mind or if another deal was struck, but here are Brodie’s lukewarm comments from that story:
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Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie credits the airport authority with listening to concerns about the mall’s site. “The earlier location would have been a problem with traffic congestion on Russ Baker Way,” Brodie said of the artery used as a commuter route.
“The decision to build a mall was made by the airport. If they are going to build a mall, this is a much better location.”
Brodie said the new transit-friendly location will be able to absorb large numbers of shoppers from both Vancouver and the airport without clogging roadways.
The mayor said the prospect of 200 construction jobs and 1,000 permanent jobs once the mall is open is welcome news.
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I haven’t visited the place, but from Gordon’s description, it’s still not exactly transit-friendly.
Spent thirty hilarious minutes at the Mall when it opened. Never got near the building. Spent the time following the instructions of the parking attendants waving us this way and that until we finally found ourselves out in a river of cars in the exit lane with no way back in. Not even sure where we were supposed to park. But looking at your photos it’s clear we must have criss-crossed multiple designated pedestrian paths but with no one on them. Instead we watched the pedestrians scramble over car barriers and wind their way through the melee. Must go back some time. Hear they have some shops there.
It will be closed before Spring 2016!
It’s not Vancouver and it’s not surprising. Look at the sprawl everywhere. That mall on the way to the ferry is a grotesque example of the worst of the 60’s style planning.
Every square inch of non ALR land is going to get gobbled up before any real change occurs. And even then, I fear the change might simply be to remove or reduce the ALR. And while that thinking dominates, car thinking dominates. There’s a development being planned in S. Surrey and the promos call it a ‘mixed use, pedestrian friendly mall’ and it’s got a little plaza for you to sit in and it all sounds great. Of course it’s next to a freeway on ramp, has underground and swaths of surface parking, and no pedestrian connections to or from. So, it’s kinda like disneyland. A little fantasy of what could be surrounded by the harsh reality of what really is.
Tsawwassen Mills is on native land, is it ALR too?
Strange that it’s being developed by the Québec public employees pension fund.
Does any mechanism exist that offers any comment or input in a development like this?
Could this be done on indian land under the Burrard Bridge?
Another development in South Surrey has much going for it. The prices are reasonable and the idea is slightly varied designs of residential over retail, with a generally pedestrian friendly streetscape. It seems to be working well. The place is busy, expanding, and the demographic is mixed but mostly younger with quite a few children too.
It is a bit Disneyesque but if it were expanded it could become just like a small town, Everything seems to be there from a gym, daycare, Walmart and Home Depot, banks and Starbucks, even Mink Chocolate etc., and the Thrifty Foods is along the lines of, although perhaps not quite so oozingly trendy and vain as Cambie Whole Foods is.
http://www.whiterockcondo.ca/morgan-crossing-15735-15795-croydon-drive-white-rock
If it’s reminiscent of anything, the development as a whole is somewhat like Arbutus just south of Broadway. This area has low-rise residential and good cohesive density, although a bit lacking in comprehensive commercial. As is becoming Morgan Crossing and surrounds. This is really what should go into the False Creek Flats and Commercial and Broadway, instead of tall thin ground-level-unfriendly high-rises.
Morgan Crossing is built at a much lower density that the Arbtutus neighbourhood (1.12 FSR according to the 2006 rezoning report). The Southeast False Creek area has at least three times that residential and commercial density, and the current zoning at Broadway and Commercial allows 3 FSR – so more than twice the density of Morgan Crossing.
One reason the density is quite low is that there’s a sea of surface parking for the shops – although the residential parking is underground. That’s partly because there’s limited transit – which isn’t how Commercial and Broadway would be characterized.
Even if Commercial and Broadway were to have substantial and extensive retain on the site it doesn’t mean that the parking has to be at grade. The European style of residential above retail is clearly an attraction for a wide demographic, at prices around $350 sq’. It has more of a village complexion than a forest of towers.
What year is this? It’s amazing that after all we know now, they’re still designing things like this. Not far from there is an amazing rapid transit system and a not bad bike path yet neither has been included well. It looks like some people just aren’t aware of what’s been going on the past ten years or so.
Don is right, it may be 2015 but the airport shopping mall isn’t Vancouver. We’re well and truly spoiled here, and you don’t have to go very far beyond the city limits to see examples like this that remind us of it.
I would suggest the Airport Mall and the monstrosity in Tsawwassen should serve as excellent cautionary examples of the future of our greenspace and our ALR if we discard the Livable Region Strategy (and the regional transit strategy that supports it like your circulatory system supports your body).
What they have in common is an ownership / policy / regulatory structure that discourages seven-generation thinking.
Very nice piece and photos. I touched on all these themes in my initial reaction to the plans here http://midrisemixeduse.tumblr.com/post/74997053155/budget-luxury-counting-jakriborgs-on-sea-island I offered an alternative plan and narrative for Templeton.
And I also learned from responses. Like the land has a federal/first-nation ownership which (like that other horrible new mall) incentivizes cash-grabs over seven-generation thinking.
It is indeed peculiar that the mall is not closer to the train station and the parking lot not to the mall’s east. A major planning oversight indeed, UNLESS the parking lot is also designed as a park-and-ride for trips to downtown Vancouver for many residents south of there.
However the walk is not that far. Some details on the demographics would be useful as I suspect many folks dropping friends or relatives or picking them up ( by car ) stop there for an hour or so for some walking around, ice cream or shopping prior to flight.
Unlike Robson or S-Granville with its narrow sidewalks and car invested streets it shows that a pedestrian zone is appreciated by many for strolling / shopping, especially if parking is free or transit is nearby.
Where else in MetroVan is there an outdoors mall near a rapid transit station ?
The mall will be expanded with another phase – on the parking lot:
http://www.mcarthurglen.com/en/designer-outlet-vancouver/en/our-new-outlet/#1738
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The rest of the equation is quite obvious.
YVR will be building an office park at Templeton in the future. It’s been the entire reason for Templeton Station all along. The outlet mall was more of an afterthought.
Some of the parking lot has been retained by YVR, some of it has been leased for the mall.
So which do you place closer to the station?
Office buildings for which you are trying to attract tenants,
or an outlet mall, to whose developer you can ground lease the least desirable parcel of land (or who perhaps wants a lower lease rate?)
The included note doesn’t indicate where the second phase will be built. The Google map of the complex makes it appear that expansion will be eastward, not westward onto the parking lot.
A planned office complex adjacent to the station, however, makes sense and helps explain why the mall is located where it is.
The lack of pedestrian facilities is par for the course. The only large parking lot I can think of that offers a sidewalk down the middle is the Superstore on SE Marine drive. Almost all others maximize parking and assume (quite rightly) that drivers and their passengers are willing to compete with cars whilst making their way to and from the store/mall.
Hmm – I think you’re right.
Current:
http://www.mcarthurglen.com/media/52937276/MAGss2015-VancouverGuide-EFr-proof_HR.PDF
Build-Out:
http://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/tail-insider.com/2014/01/construction-begins-on-vancouver.html
But I think the areas closer to the station would be earmarked for denser development, future expansion and/or more parking. Typically, these outlet malls build multi-storey parkades when they become popular, and having the parkade entrance closer to the access road, rather than at the far end of the site, could also be a factor (or just visibility of the parking lot so driver know where to go).
The Build-Out map says covered pedestrian walkway – so maybe that will come in future.
I also found some info that the first phase of the business park will be south of the station, not north (and it’s surround by parking lots (typical suburban office park-style))
So another factor could be that the YVR employees’ parking lot takes priority on the north side.
But either way, if successful, I doubt the parking lot will stay forever
(i.e. like Brentwood and Lougheed are building out to their SkyTrain stations, too).
I am guessing that there was some agreement with the mall owners to provide a cycling facility to make the connection to Iona. There is one on the south side of the street that runs behind the mall on the south side. It abruptly turns into a ‘shared’ facility (read: sidewalk) about where the parking lot begins. We just cross the street and ride on the road at that point – multi-use facilities like shared pathways are not desirable. A real missed opportunity to do something innovative and *right.
For the ten cyclists a day that go there ? Let’s get our priorities straight: shoppers for that kind of mall – or for that matter airport & airport island customers – are not bikers. 99.8% (likely more) are car users or transit users.
Certainly it’s mostly car users now, but please don’t judge cyclist and pedestrian demand by counting the number of cyclists and pedestrians that go there now in the absence of adequate facilities.