As municipal budgetary deadlines approach, expect to hear a lot from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation – in particular, spokesperson Jordan Bateman, an ex-Langley Township councillor whose profession is now the de-legitimization of government through a relentless attack on taxes.
The CTF position: municipal budgets should not go up beyond the rate of inflation. Which means, essentially, no increase in the provision of ‘public goods’ – those services and structures which we fund collectively – and over time, a diminishment in the role and presence of government in our lives, accompanied by the assumption that the private sector can do it better.
So what is an example of a collective good funded by municipal government that has required an increase in property taxes above inflation? Well, there’s this:
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Vancouver Courier
It’s the newly opened Trout Lake Community Centre. Inspired by Stephen Quinn’s column in The Globe, I went over for a look this weekend. And I found out that he was right:
My new community centre is vast and beautiful, all curves and asymmetrical lines, carved of concrete, glass and aluminum, with an entrance that practically begs you to come inside.
The interior is airy and open, offering mountain views from many of the rooms, and views of John Hendry Park from others. At night, the lights of Grouse Mountain shimmer in the distance as you exit.
It is the latest in a new wave of grand community centres that have up sprung up across the city.
Trout Lake followed Sunset (below right), and Creekside, and Hillcrest (below), and Kensington – each a stunning addition, immediately embraced by the surrounding community – the people who pay for them. Happily. Because they got something so tangibly better for the additional dollars they were taxed.
What Jordan implies, of course, is that because they are collective goods, not provided by the private-sector, they are somehow illegitimate or excessive. And he’s probably right: these community centres could have been done cheaper, or not at all.
After all, do we really need them? Most cities don’t, not on this scale, not this luxurious. Fitness facilities are certainly something the private sector could provide, earning a profit for those who take the risk to invest in them. And our property taxes could be lower as a result.
What Jordan and the CTF don’t want to acknowledge is the collective benefits that result from the way Canadians are prepared to tax themselves – the benefits which often cannot be measured, at least in dollars. There’s that very notion of ‘community’ – a place where all people are welcome, regardless of class or income, and regardless of where they live.
Look at that list again. All the new community centres of this quality have been built on the east side of Vancouver. They serve disproportionately the less well off and the more vulnerable. A quck glance at the ice rink at Trout Lake shows right away that this is a place where recent immigrants, notably their children, are introduced to the Canadian way of life. What’s that worth?
The U.S. has had 40 years of people like Jordan repeating the mantra of ‘No More Taxes,’ of private-sector superiority, of de-regulation. They have levered the inefficiencies of government and resentment of its employees to support a generalized attack in order to constrain and de-fund government at every opportunity. And the consequences are now evident: profound and rising inequality. Not, I think, a coincidence.
That’s what the CTF really doesn’t want to talk about in the same sentence: inequality. So instead they focus on waste and wages, and not what you feel when walking into the Trout Lake Community Centre: that sense of jointly shared expense and benefit – across the city, across the social spectrum.
Remember that when the tax notice comes. We pay more taxes because we get more value for a collective good. Ourselves. Our community.
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UPDATE: Geoff Plant makes the same point in his blog.
UPDATE: Jordan responds.
I have known Jordan tangentially (through his writing at the Langley Advance, through odd encounters, through his blog, and through him as a Councillor where my parents live) for over 15 years now, and I always thought he was thoughtful, if of a different ideology than me. It saddens me to see him shilling for the CTF now…
He has seen the light. Good for him.
If govt wants to create equality they should pay down the debt and remove regulations so that private sector has the capacity to respond to community needs. They could provide it at a fair price so we can actually afford it and not rely on the taxes to be ripped from the hands of little old ladies in my community struggling to hang onto their house, but have difficulty b/c their taxes keep going up.
I live just a couple blocks from the community centre and didn’t know that it was open. Thanks for this post.
I’m glad it was built with expandability in mind. The area needs another pool as the one over at Renfrew is always packed as is Kilarney. Wish Renfrew would get it’s own ice rink as well to relieve the stress we will see at Trout Lakes. The design does looks great.
If the area “needs” another pool then the people who “need” the pool will be willing to pay for it. If a large number of people exist that “need” the pool then there is a market for the pool. If there is a market for the pool then a private business will be willing to risk its capital and plow through the forest of red tape and govt regulations to get one built- at the lowest cost, compliant with mountains of govt regs. Then those that need the pool will have one and the rest of us will not have to suffer increased taxes and we can buy the things we need. That’s fair. Stealing my money from me through taxation to build a freebie luxury at 4x the market cost for a few in the community is not fair and reduces equality.
Thanks for a great post. I am in total agreement with your point of view. Public facilities often provide services that the private sector isn’t willing to – such as enhanced access for those with disabilities. We need to continue to support these beautiful and inviting community centres. It is impossible to calculate the benefits they provide; they not only bring us together, but they also provide affordable and accesible places for people to exercise. We need fewer barriers to exercise and more places that draw people to participate. Bravo to the city. I, for one, will cheerfully write my cheque next week to pay my taxes.
We live in Canada for gods sake, what “barriers” are there to exercise? Just step outside.
Before big government came to town the people managed to build ice rinks, soccer fields and swimming pools. The community pitched in and even added their own labour. Now for 4x the market cost we get big empty community centres built everywhere competing with the private sector. So now we have govt putting private gyms out of business- the very businesses they need to produce tax revenue to pay down the massive debts incurred by building a community centre at 4x market cost- not to mention the ongoing maintenance which the govt will over pay for. Wake up. If the private sector wont build it its because the community does not want or need it.
And don’t forget the municipalities are massively in debt to begin with. Do you overspend on luxuries when you are in debt? Not with your own money you don’t. So don’t do it with mine.
“So now we have govt putting private gyms out of business”
LOL. Have you taken a look around Vancouver these days? The private gym business is BOOMING.
Balderdash.
Tell you what, find a municipality that has been conservative and spent its money wisely for years. It is not overstaffed with over paid workers looking forward to massive pensions. It has had alot of budget surpluses because of its good money management.
It can splurge on a ridiculously modern expensive community centre built at 4x market cost. Even then it should not push private businesses out of business, but at least it would not be going further into debt. Yes its nice to get free luxuries using other peoples money, borrowing other peoples money, but its not ethical, or practical and it hurts everybody in the long run.
It is extremely rare to find a municipality in the US and Canada which has been conservative and spent its money wisely for years, as evidenced by various municipal regulations which strongly favours building outward rather than upward (zoning, development charges which don’t reflect the cost to provide services), and preference of roads over public transit, resulting in constant pressure to increase property taxes, as the infrastructure ages and as energy prices increase faster than inflation. This suggests that the people, and by extension, the market, prefers poor spending.
We had more equality 100 years ago than we do now. The growth of government and massive waste of tax payer dollars makes us all poorer. The growth of big government is the CAUSE of inequality not the solution.
Did the bailouts of 2008 teach us nothing? The govt stepped into “save us” and now we are saddled with debt (and ever higher taxes to pay the interest on it), interests rates are slashed so old people cant live off interest and the big banks thatwere encouraged by govt to take ridiculous risks are even bigger. Wake up people. Do you want a fancy community centre built at 4x the real cost or do you want liberty and the ability to earn your way to prosperity? Big government makes us serfs paying off its debts. Don’t be a simple serf and thank the king for building you a 2 million dollar artistic latrine with the fruits of your labour. I’ll build my own latrine thank you, with my own money.
Thank you for this post. I, for one, am already benefiting from the new Trout Lake Community Centre, which I have been eagerly waiting to re-open. My son is registered there for an affordable preschool program once a week that he loves and we couldn’t afford if we our only option was a private sector program. Hillcrest is also an amazing addition and legacy to the community nearby and throughout Vancouver. Since we were children we’ve been enjoying the benefits of community centres through pools, gyms, sports fields, community programming and so much more. I for one and happy to pay a slightly higher tax rate to know that my children and generations to follow will get to enjoy these benefits in years to come!
Glad to hear that you are willing to take my money from me to pay for your luxury. You are also willing to take away options from the private sector who risk their own sweat and capital to provide services and tax revenue to pave our streets. Glad to hear you are enjoying the fruits of my labour and all of us that do not want to spend 4x the market cost for such a luxury being staffed and maintained by overpaid public sector employees.
Remember the govt does not ask me to pay taxes so that you can enjoy yourself. My tax money is taken from me by force, under threat of losing my house, so that you can enjoy your luxurious swim at a discount. There no free rides, I’m paying for yours and so are lots of people that cannot afford to.
Oh you poor John Galt.
definition of a troll: someone who disagrees with your ideology and has the indecency to say so.
Huh? No, that is not the definition of a troll. Are you saying that expressing differing ideologies is not allowed. That is the basis for these kinds of dialogues.
Is it just me, or is anyone else wondering about all of the time “farmsalmon4ever” (now there’s a sickening concept…) has been wasting on this forum?
Why, “farmsalmon4ever”, doesn’t you’re beloved free-market system provide you with all the opportunity in the world to earn as many millions of dollars as you would like, so that you can save yourself from the ruthless, vicious, self-interested municipal government taxes that have you “under threat of losing [your] house”?
It seems fairly evident that if you are under such threat, it is likely due to your very own insatiable time and energy-sucking thirst for responding to each and every internet post that you – in all of your worldly wisdom – can get your chubby (read: never having entered a community centre) fingers on.
The free market system does allow me to earn money- however it has been hijacked by beaurocrats trying to suffocate it with taxation and regulation i.e. too many beaurocrats without enough to do so they have to create red tape to justify their overpaid existence.
I am not worried about losing my house, but I am worried about my Moms and Dads and the elderly who keep getting buried with the taxes that arise from the debt from the splurging of governments trying to get re elected by buying luxuries like multimillion dollar eco-community centres.
I am voicing that I dont like paying taxes at the point of a gun for your luxuries. And I dont like the demonization of people that actually work for a living- eg salmon farmers- to keep you in the lifestyle for which you’ve grown so accustomed.
And I am writing from Kenya where I am working with the extreme poor so your chubby Canadian “needs” do not impress me and certainly do not require me to enjoy having my money taken from me by force to pay for them. I’d rather spend it myself, down here.
In the grand scheme of things, community centres represent a comparatively small proportion of the total expenditure of municipalities, but result in multiple benefits: more people want to live or visit the municipality, benefitting the local economy. The free market system does not operate anywhere, with the prime example being the government intervention in the transportation infrastructure, which would be terribly inefficient due to the conflicts of the different private-sector interests. If anything, there should be criticism of things which have a low rate of return on the investment but consume a disproportionate amount of municipal money, such as things associated with the automobile, as the costs of its use (congestion, air and noise pollution, stress. collisions, road deterioration) are significant but would be difficult (if not impossible) to quantify in a free-market system..
I have passed by the other day (before opening): no doubt it is fine architecture…but I was concerned by how little it relates to the street: it looks more designed for access by car than by feet.
Also, I was questioning myself: why not have take the opportunity to put a condo/office development atop?
With the price comparison website we can save our money. How mean’s, Comparison service providing websites like “AltiusCompare.com” compare the prices with different merchandises, then select best price merchandise then buy the products.
http://www.altiuscompare.com/
And where does this “4x market cost” come from?
Interesting story. The City of Ottawa has 5 districts for garbage collection. They were all managed by different private companies. 3 years ago, the City put a bid in on one of the districts to do the collection itself. The bids were all received by a private company and reviewed, and the City won. However, since they do such a better job at a lower price, the private companies are asking the government to not let them bid on all the rest of the districts. Free Enterprise!
I use roads and I pay for them…whats your point? A really cool designed community centre that the community doesnt need, that the private sector will happily provide is not comparable to a public road; its an overpriced luxury.
When govt is involved the cost skyrockets and the quality plummets. check out the bang for the buck we get on healthcare and education.
There are an enormous number of subsidies directed toward the automobile: below-market parking fines and fees, insurance and loan rates, the capital, operational and maintenance costs of roads, highways, bridges, congestion, stress, air and noise pollution, collisions, sedentary lifestyle, loss of quality and quantity of work hours, etc. If you were required to pay for the free-market costs, you would be bankrupt long ago.
deh3, I’m not sure why you think Iam pro govt spending on auto friendly infrastructure, I am not. I am anti big govt and by extension big govt overspending. They go hand in hand.
The argument for community centre spending is that it will increase community values is identical to the argument for roads. And it is bogus. Every overspent dime of govt money is rationalized in the same way: It will have a ROI of blank.
The problem is the beaurocrats, as evidenced by their failure everywhere to manage $ properly have no idea how to measure what is needed or how much to spend on it. And they don’t care because its not their money. They are not incentivized, trained or have any experience at money management, neither are their bosses.
If roads etc were decided by the free market, cars would be extremely expensive BUT our towns would not be bankrupt and there would be less roads. Because roads are paid for by the public purse which is managed by beaurocrats we have WAAAAY too many roads, parking lots etc AND as a bonus we are bankrupt.
You want to make a community more attractive and better place to live? Keep it out of debt, taxes can plummett and the businesses will trip over themselves to build there, they will pay you to let them build a community centre for you. You want a better lifestyle, afford to buy an electric car?: get out of debt, stop overspending, now, not one day, now.
When govt is involved the costs skyrocket and the quality tanks. Govt always makes sure to get the highest price using the highest priced workers to get the job done at the slowest possible pace.
That’s a good story.
Is the government doing it cheaper because the tax payer is on the hook for the real cost? Perhaps the govt had some unfair advantage as in they didnt have to “count” their capital costs. I have a hard time believing that over paid beaurocrats with guaranteed pensions can pick up garbage cheaper, unless competing with an even more ridiculous private sector union of which there are very few. I’ll remain skeptical that you have all the facts. Sort of like how the govt “won” the contract for the Fast Ferries methinks.
And I presume FarmSalmon4Ever never uses roads….
Sorry I keep posting in wrong box:
I use roads and I pay for them…whats your point? A really cool designed community centre that the community doesnt need, that the private sector will happily provide is not comparable to a public road; its an overpriced luxury.
When govt is involved the cost skyrockets and the quality plummets. check out the bang for the buck we get on healthcare and education.
It seems to me that FarmSalmon4Ever believes that the services and utilities he uses are ‘needs’, while the services and utilities used by others are ‘luxuries’.
I belong to a ‘private fitness club’. It’s convenient for me, I enjoy their classes, etc. It costs about $60/month. I’m in a position to afford that. I’m glad that forward-thinking governments are putting these facilities in place (on my tax dollars! oh no!) for people who cannot afford such things.
Great Jamie, You are a real comrade. The Party will be sure to show their appreciation. Maybe your tune will change once your private sector fees continue to rise or your gym goes out of business.
If you are so happy paying taxes why not pay even more? Nothing stopping you from sending in bigger cheques. Maybe the local park could use a really expensive sculpture (but ever-so soothing) or the public sector employees could use yet another day off per year. Your municipality has a HUGE debt and major interest payments to make, why not just sign over your entire paycheque to them and I’m sure, like you, out of the goodness of their hearts, they will give you a little back to get by.
In fact since there are so many needy people why not just forego the convenience of your private gym and send in a little extra to the local govt , maybe they can install an Infrared sauna for the poor people in your community.
Oh dear, how sad. This very interesting blog has developed a troll whose posts you have to ignore and scroll past in order to read the ones from informed people.
Sorry, keep posting in wrong box.
Definition of a troll: someone who disagrees with your ideology and has the indecency to say so.
Thanks for sharing, Gordon. Even Warren Buffett says he doesn’t get taxed enough for the benefit of his country. Yes. We all like lower taxes, but we live I cities and groups. We are not islands upon ourselves. Facilities like community centers add to our cities and communities.
When I lived in Toronto, I lived in a part of town where it was not easy to find a community centre like the ones in Vancouver. The monthly fees for private fitness centres were roughly $100/month. And these were the University of Toronto and Jewish Community Centres, not some private outfits. I for one am glad to have out community centres built by our city and then supported by our communities.
With respect to little grannies being forced out by higher taxes. Aren’t those municipal taxes linked to the property assessments which are greatly affected by free market conditions?
Granny’s house taxes are influenced by low interest rates which lead to inflated prices. The govt intervention in interests keeps our markets un-free. Muni govts raise the mill rate of taxation to pay off their debts. Wait til interest rates rise and house prices fall while debt costs soar. That’s whats coming-and has come- the world over. Canada’s real estate bubble is simply the last to pop.
Warren Buffett is a liar. He CHOOSES to pay himself in dividends so that his corporation pays the higher tax rate and he pays the lower tax rate of dividends. If he CHOSE to give himself a salary he would pay a much higher tax rate. If he wants to pay higher taxes he can.
Personally I don’t want Buffett paying more taxes. Buffett will spend his money much smarter than buildings full of beaurocrats. Buffett is likely to create jobs with his investments. Govt is likely to hire more beaurocrats and build un-needed community centres that kill jobs by directly competing with the private sector. Every public sector job kills a private sector job. ALL our tax revenue comes from the private sector- 100%. We kill or hurt it, we kill or hurt the goose.
So government creates jobs with high wages and benefits while the private sector pays as little as it can and exports any work that can’t be done cheap enough here to China or Thailand. Tell me again how government is a bad thing?
Government does not create jobs, govt creates nothing. It takes away taxes from productive canadians and pays unproductive beaurocrats. This is not job creation, this is redistribution. Every govt job represents a dead , productive,private sector job. Only private sector jobs create wealth, public sector jobs cost us our wealth.
Author
There are many different kinds of ‘collective goods,’ perhaps more to the taste of those who think community centres are luxuries:
Sorry you missed.
I do think tanks are even stupider purchases than spa-like community centres. Check this out: Surrey raising property taxes, coming to a neighbourhood near you: http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1643761
I know its a crazy idea, but why don’t we not buy ANYTHING stupid until we are out of debt?
Imagine we actually cut taxes because govt has gotten so thrifty and we get to spend our own money on things WE want without a gun to our head.
Great post Gordon. I’ll add my voice to those willing to pay more taxes for excellent public ammenities.
p.s. the David Suzuki foundation never ceases to amaze me. Paying someone to leave annoying comments under the handle farmsalmon4ever. Genius! I know I’m sick of farmed salmon now.
David Suzuki is a businessman taking US$ to convince a gullible public we need to eat wild salmon as a means of saving them thereby marketting farmed Alaskan salmon for his US masters (the public thinks ocean ranching is better than open neet farming).
Gord, correct me if I’m wrong, but in your post here you imply that a fiscal conservative (by definition someone who wants spending restraint) – and by extension Jordan Bateman – is someone who somehow despises the poor, has no appreciation for community amenities, is not “community” oriented, would not embrace well-designed modern facilities, and (from your last response above) a war monger.
You write:
The CTF position: municipal budgets should not go up beyond the rate of inflation. Which means, essentially, no increase in the provision of ‘public goods’ – those services and structures which we fund collectively – and over time, a diminishment in the role and presence of government in our lives, accompanied by the assumption that the private sector can do it better.
I’m not sure how one concludes that raising taxes beyond the rate of inflation (which is in itself, exacerbating the inflationary pressures of citizens) is required to build community facilities like Trout Lake. I’m also not sure why having the “presence of government in our lives” equates with increasing public happiness.
Jordan, like you, is a friend of mine. He’s a young father, a community leader, a former politician (like you) who was pivotal stakeholder in getting a massive public amenity built in Langley – the Langley Event Centre. “People like Jordan”, like you, contribute disproportionately to the success of their community. I think there is more that bonds you than separates you, which is why I find the tone of your post surprising.
When it comes to replacing community centres, Vancouver is at a crossroads because of the high building costs. Thanks to the cost of labour and materials, Trout Lake community centre and ice rink is one of the most expensive community centre projects paid for by Vancouverites – over $21,000,000. I have no doubt it will be a great success, probably bursting at the seams just like Killarney, Sunset and Hillcrest before it. There is a long list of centres wishing to rebuild and renew, and it will be a long time coming because of the costs involved. Kerrisdale, Dunbar, Marpole, Britannia, etc. all want new modern spaces. I’m told that West Point Grey is the most dilapidated and probably should be replaced first (do less well off immigrants live there though?).
The funding for these facilities comes from a variety of sources, all of which are picked up by facility users and taxpayers. Vancouver has two reportedly underused facilities – Coal Harbour Community Centre and Creekside Community Centre – were aided by levies on development. Hillcrest was paid for roughly out of a 50/50 split with VANOC. Trout Lake also received a few million from the Olympics.
Sunset Community Centre is perhaps the most interesting example of how a facility is funded. Instead of me trying to explain it, I recommend this video backgrounder below (link:
. It was a true partnership of all levels of government, organized by a community leader/banker named Walter Schultz, former president of the Sunset Community Centre Association. Walter is a good friend, and he’s rightfully proud of how he lobbied the Park Board, the Province and federal government for funding, and how their community centre association provided the downpayment. Were taxes used? Yes. Did we have to raise them higher than the rate of inflation to pay for a new Sunset facility? No.
By the way, I read Geoff Plant’s excellent blog post (thanks for the link). I don’t think Geoff was arguing what you were, however. Geoff urges people to ask “how we will pay for it?” In other words, before you wish for something consider where the funding will come from. It’s a way to discipline the mind of the taxpayer, who at times thinks government is a bottomless barrel of money. This is what Jordan Bateman and the CTF are suggesting too – how will we pay for it, and indeed, what should we spend those resources on?
My guess is that you’d all consider good community infrastructure as a priority. So would I. But I don’t want us to raise taxes more than the rate of inflation and growth because I don’t think it’s fair.
farmsalmon4ever, quit being a troll. I don’t understand why you keep posting the definition of a troll when we can all understand what a troll is solely from your comments.
I don’t use these community centres, but I support them because of the collective good it brings to the general public. There are many tangible and intangible, direct and indirect benefits that come out of community centres. If you can’t see them, then there’s no point in explaining to you.
Just because you don’t use them doesn’t mean they’re a waste. We all know private wealth is important, but learn to appreciate public wealth. Thank goodness we’re in Canada where people see the importance of public wealth.
The community centres do not provide for the collective good. We are all pushed further into debt to pay for them, a tiny percent of the community uses them. They are a WASTE of money and represent an ongoing burden and take away private sector opportunity to provide the service and thus create revenue rather than extract it.
I occasionally use the community centres, I understand why people like them. People like paying very little and people like enjoying the fruits of other peoples labour. Community centres are cheaper than private sector gyms. Often, when you go into a community centre they dont even ask you to pay. Who cares? Its not their money. There is no boss in the building trying to earn his way, no individual has his capital on the line. In fact alot of people on this forum would be happy if the commie centre (sic) had a bad flooding accident and things went really bad because then that would “create” more jobs or so their economic thinking has it.
The private fitness centre industry is NOT booming. And even if it were, it should boom some more. Ever person using that centre instead of a private sector gym is sucking money out of the economy. Every worker in that community centre is a burden to all of us as most of us are paying for them against our will, but the law says we have to or we lose our house.
I have an idea. farmsalmon4ever should just stay in Kenya. That way (s)he’ll never have to worry about the “wasteful” Canadian way of life ever again.
I have an even better idea, farmsalmon4ever should just go to Kenya’s next door neighbour, Somalia to experience the libertarian paradises that he seems to desire.
Somalia has nothing to do with libertarian values, what the heck are you talking about? After years of totalitarianism, read extreme government of the nastiest kind, it has become a failed state.
Nofishincaptivity,
Haha. no chickens, beef, pork or plants in captivity either?
Rigid and binding ideology is a highly destructive force on the mind, and I think this thread demonstrates that to a tee. I will add my voice to the vast majority who support strong publicly built and publicly owned community centres, as well as other public services, which I and many of my fellow citizens use on a regular basis.
And I will add my voice to the many who are waking up to the realization that private enterprise isn’t intrinsically more efficient or better in delivering social services and infrastructure than government leadership. In some cases direct government services provide the service at lower cost, simply because private corporations add a profit margin to everything they do, and that drives up costs for taxpayers despite higher salaries for public employees. In fact, I would also argue that, rather than feeling jealous of public employees, we should support higher paying jobs as a public good – that those people will then be better able to support the local economy, and that society will be more equal because lower-level employees are paid more fairly for the work they do rather than that money being eaten up by a corporate profit margin, which doesn’t necessarily benefit the local economy.
Trout Lake is a beautiful community centre, far higher quality than equivalent private centres, and yet at a much more affordable price. It provides a service that there simply isn’t a business case for, and in fact lowers our health care costs and reduces worker sick days by improving the overall healthyness, both physical and social, of the surrounding community.
While social programs may tend to be directed towards poorer residents, and the benefits may be most felt by those who would otherwise not be able to afford a private club, these investments have a real “trickle up” effect, as less inequality results in healthier communities, less crime, a stronger economy and fewer government costs in other departments, in particular health. It has my full support.
Of course it has your support and of course that is the majority opinion and that is why we are buried in debt. The windows of the the community centre will be boarded it or it will be sold off to pay the interest on the debt. That is its legacy.
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.
-Adam Smith
“The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.”
-Adam Smith
I don’t think that means “build the poor an architecually impressive spa” and I don’t think that means taking 50% of the income of the top 50% (the “rich”?) by force to do it. I also don’t think by “poor” he meant ‘people who cant comfortably afford a new car every 5 years or send their child to hockey camp’. Nor do I think he meant for us to go deep into debt to make sure the ‘poor’ have a tax-payer paid spa experience.
We have gone waaay off the rails from where Mr Smith was talking and I think you understand that. We are not arguing against OAP or welfare here we are talking about a ridiculously over-engineered, over-priced community centre built for a few not-as-rich-as-they’d-like-to-be people at the expense of everyone, even the elderly trying to hang onto their houses, with BORROWED money, by a govt already deeply in debt.