A fascinating thread – if sometimes repetitious and tedious – on the Hornby cycle-track proposal at Frances Bula’s blog. The issue seems to be dominating civic discourse these days, and because of the instant echo-chamber effect of online media, can get a tad hysterical, ad hominen and conspiratorial.
But it’s nothing like previous battles over road space in this town. Most people weren’t around or have forgotten the Great Shaughnessy Traffic-calming Debate in the early 80s. I well remember Mike Harcourt, the mayor at that time, appearing before a very hostile public meeting of hundreds to defend the proposal. Or the conflict east of Denman when traffic-calming was moving towards a required vote as a local improvement project (it narrowly passed). Oh, the angst.
Would anyone propose removing a single element of any of those schemes today?
And of course there was the Great Freeway Fight of the late 1960s. That massive road-and-bridge project was the most important thing that never happened to this city. Today, there is absolutely no political oxygen to support anything remotely like it.
In fact, with the possible expection of the first Granville Mall, I can’t think of an example where road space has been reallocated or traffic discouraged that hasn’t improved the quality of Vancouver life. And if there’s any evidence that such actions have negatively affected the economy, I wait to hear it.
Or even negatively affected the traffic flow. As the number of moving vehicles continues to drop in the core, a trend starting in the mid-1990s, there is in fact more room to reallocate road space from vehicles than there was when traffic-calming began in decades previous.
So take a deep breath, everyone; we’ve been through this before. Let the consultation and mitigation proposals proceed, have the emotional meeting at Council, and then get on with the changes that, within a few months, will make everyone wonder what the fuss was about.
Here, here!
It still bugs me that Vancouver spends so much on this infrastructure and it takes so long.
What’s wrong with the paint and planters at Hamilton & Dunsmuir? Cars can still park next to them, so you don’t lose any parking spaces (happier local businesses) and they’re cheap.
Why can’t we lose a car thru-lane (no economic contribution) on every downtown street that has four or more, and put a half-lane-wide planter-separated bike lane down on both sides of the road, on the sidewalk side of the parked cars.
I’m sure a team of 100 pro-cycling volunteers could do a street a day, and we’d be done in a month or two tops, for the cost of a couple of hundred planters and tins of paint.
Cheers CV, but that wasn’t quite my point. I was more concerned that City of Van seems to be spending a fortune on completing its streets – with confusing two-way lanes, fancy continuous planters and bikerack integration, although oddly without much thought to a continuous network or consistent junction safety – when the set-up at Hamilton (shown here http://www.flickr.com/photos/rayvaneng/4705070202/) would seem to work fine.
One planter every 10m, painted line underneath them: simple and cheap. You wouldn’t have even lost a lane on Dunsmuir that way, just rejigged them so they were each ever-so-slightly narrower (to fit the planter barrier), and put the cycle lane on the correct, sidewalk, side of the parked cars, not on the roadside.
Oop, gone. Oh well. Nice blog tho Brandon, presuming this is you? http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Skalbania+cycling+advocate+clash+bike+lane+change/3388754/story.html
Sorry for the confusion Neil, here’s my comment again, but with a better link:
Check out the Google Street View of Hamilton and Dunsmuir prior to the new bike lane. You can see 5 car lanes wide, plus the old bike lane. So a lane was definitely removed to accommodate the 2-way bike lane.
My understanding of the Dunsmuir bike lane was they experimented with different techniques on each block. I’m not sure what they are planning for Hornby. I hope a few sections have bike corrals on them. I use the corral at Dunsmuir and Seymour and if I’m not there before 9 am they are all full.
I agree about the bike racks. Before the Dunsmuir bike lane there was just one measly 3-bike rack in front of the BCIT downtown campus on Seymour. The lane brought another 20+ bike racks beside BCIT, a great thing – but as “canadianveggie” noted they’re not enough. IMHO this is pretty concrete evidence that the Dunsmuir bike lane really is bringing new cyclists into the city.
Hornby needs to include plenty of bike racks, especially near popular destinations.
“expection” – nice bit of word smithery
WRT The Wedgewood and its curbside drop-off, there are a number of hotels along Hornby, and whihcever side you pick, there will be at least one affected. On the west side there’s The Wedgewood and Le Soleil Vancouver. On the east side there’s the Landis Hotel and Suites. The Sheraton Wall Centre Hotel and The Fairmont Hotel Vnacouver don’t factor in as they have their own driveways.
Whichever side of Hornby is chosen for the bike lane, the solution would be to install a small island between the travel lane and the bike lane and allow pick-up and drop off at the island – the same way that the West Vancouver bus stop at VCC is configured.
Personally, I’d rather see the bike lane on the west side of Hornby, since a lot of Hornby traffic turns right to access Downtown South and having it on the west side would reduce conflicts. It also provides an easy connection to both north and southbound Burrard bike lanes (reducing one street crossing) – I think that connection is more important than the one at Hornby and Dunsmuir, since bikes are more likely to disperse one in the core.
Left turns off Hornby could be banned relatively easily at a number of intersections, since a lot of traffic on Hornby originates from Burrard Bridge and left turning vehicles could simply use Burrard to access the West End and points west. The main route that could be impacted is the typical Cambie Bridge -> Smithe -> Hornby -> Georgia -> Lions Gate route through the downtown core, but drivers can alternately use Smithe-> Burrard-> Dunsmuir instead (there’s no left turn from Burrard to Georgia during the day) or drivers can learn to turn off to access Georgia at pionts east (such as via Seymour).
Sorry everyone but this thread is way too respectful. Don’t you know we’re discussing bike lanes?
@ Neil
Nope! Wrong Brandon.
I walk past sections of the Dunsmuir bike lane daily.
I have seen one or two near misses between cars and cyclists at the right turns which could have been deadly, so I think there’s an unresolved safety issue there. I don’t think most drivers realize they’re going to have to do more than take a quick peek at the right-hand side mirror, … where objects are larger than they appear.
I don’t recall seeing any bikes locked to the bike racks.
I meant so say, … where objects are closer than they appear.
Left turns are restricted from Burrard at nearly every intersection. As it is, drivers using the Burrard bridge to get to the West End and the North Shore learn to use Hornby then Georgia (or to use Beach then Denman). If the bike path was on the west (i.e. left) side of Hornby, it would conflict with left turns from Hornby.
With the bike path on the east (i.e. right) side of Hornby, the Burrard bridge-Hornby-Georgia driving route does not conflict with the bike path at any intersection. If right turns were banned from Hornby, drivers from the Burrard bridge would learn to stay on Burrard to turn right into Downtown South at Drake/Davie/Nelson/etc. None of these routes would conflict with the bike path at any intersection.
The intersection with the most potential for conflict is at Georgia. The back-up from from the right turn from Georgia onto Howe can block Hornby. I’d be curious if banning right turns at this one intersection could simultaneously improve traffic flow and reduce conflicts with the bike path.
Does anyone know a good route from Burrard Bridge to Denman? It seems to be impossible to left turn off Burrard at some times of day. Is it possible to go right onto Pacific or Drake after exiting the bridge and then loop down to Beach? I gather that Hornby is one-way going north from Beach.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Author
Steve
If you’re nothbound on the Burrard Bridge, the sidewalk swings on to Pacific eastbound. You can go down the first lane you come to (a hard right)to connect with Pacific. Or continue on to Hornby where you can take the separated bike lane southbound to Pacific. You can also continue on Hornby (now two way) to the seawall and ferry.
Gord
Much thanks, Gord. That clarifies the situation.
Steve